SPEAKER_02 0:00

Before we jump into today's conversation, I want to start with an observation that has always fascinated me. And this is something that we all have experienced, one way or the other. Have you ever met someone or came across someone and instantly you were drawn to them? It felt like you've known them for a long time. You just felt at ease with them. And opposite is also true. Like you came across someone, and for some reason you felt like something's off about them. What fascinates me is that obviously this doesn't just happen in our personal relationships. It happens in business every single day. Someone might land on your website or read one of your social media posts or listen to you speak and they immediately form an opinion about you, right? They're either drawn to you and they want to listen to you. And deep down, they feel like they somehow have known you or they like you, or even I would go as far as like feeling connected to you. And if you ask them, they wouldn't be able to tell you why that is. Now, if you've been around this podcast for a while, you've heard me explore these ideas through the lens of human behavior, biopsychology, communication, and buying decision making. And today's conversation explores some of those same questions, but through a different lens. My guest, Jane Warrilo, approaches this work through resonance, energy, and what she calls the field or container that we create for other people. And what surprised me most was how much overlap I found in what she does and how I talk about it when it comes to marketing. And regardless of the language that we use, we're really exploring the same questions. What are people experiencing when they enter into your world? Because people are always responding to more than your messages and your copy, especially in business that's built around our expertise, our leadership, or our presence. Your audience, they're not simply just evaluating information that they're coming across or you're sharing with them. They're experiencing you. So whether Jane's perspective feels familiar to you or completely new, I'd like to invite you to listen to this conversation with curiosity. I think you'll discover some fascinating connections between trust, resonance, human behavior, and what actually causes people to lean in and want to be in your world. Hello and welcome to Marketing Your Truth, the podcast for entrepreneurs who want to grow a fulfilling and impactful business with clarity, integrity, and ease without performing, chasing trends, or losing their voice. I'm your host, Ellen Atoly, and I'm really glad you're here. Let's get started. Hi, Jane. How are you? Welcome to Marketing Your Truth Podcast.

SPEAKER_01 3:10

Oh, Ellie, so lovely to be with you today. I'm really looking forward to our conversation. So thank you for having me.

SPEAKER_02 3:17

Likewise, likewise, thank you for being here. I've been so excited to have you on this podcast. Um, ever since you and I connected and we started having conversations, and you had me on your podcast. And then again, we deepened, we went deep into all these layers of what it means to market your truth and how you talk about it, and all the layers in terms of alignment and resonance and all those good stuff. I've just been so excited to have you here to really get into this uh the nitty-gritty of how you see all of those, um all these layers and what you do, what you bring into the to this conversation and how you help your clients. The very first place that I want to go to is I know that for decades you've been building businesses and you've been helping coaches and entrepreneurs. But if I were to take you back to the beginning, what would that version of you, the early version of you, think about the type of work that you're doing right now? What would she think?

SPEAKER_01 4:27

Oh my gosh. Wow, to go back there. You know, my very first business was opened in 1996, 97. And it was kind of before the internet. Now, don't get me wrong, the internet was there, but but internet-driven business really wasn't in the same way, particularly not in England anyway. And we were just, I think we were on things like, is it MySpace? I don't know, but even the social media platforms weren't out. And I have this visceral reaction of um one of my clients, my very early clients, was a marketing agency. And I remember them saying to me, you need a website. And I remember thinking, what do I need a website for? Like, because the business was mainly offline, that was the only way I knew how to do business. So yeah, I was right at the beginning of the internet. So if that if that Jane looked at what I was doing now, uh, I don't think she'd she it would just blow her mind, I think. I don't think she'd have any idea of the technology that's so important in the business, the way that we work online. And because even back then, I had this view. So even, I mean, fast forward, we moved to America in 2009. When we moved in 2009, I was still mainly coaching face-to-face. And in England, I don't know, clients were a little bit snippy at the time. They're like, oh no, I don't want to work just on the telephone coaching, or I don't, because we hadn't really got Zoom either. And so I did do some telephone coaching, but people didn't really like it, and they thought that you couldn't get the same depth of transformation by working in that way. So I was literally always in my car, always driving around, or on a plane, flying out to another head office in Europe or whatever. And so looking at where we are now, I don't think she could have conceived the way that business would develop, the online world, and how it's leveled the playing field for many of us, and also how it's changed our industry, how it's changed, like you know, leadership development, coaching, any kind of professional change is is kind of innovative and very different to what it was back in the 1990s at least. So it's like, yeah, I think she'd just be like shocked and in awe of where everything's gone, not just from what I've achieved, but also how the business itself has completely shifted.

SPEAKER_02 7:12

I know, I know. Oh my gosh, I had forgotten about my space.

SPEAKER_01 7:18

I don't think I was even on it, but I remember people talking about it.

SPEAKER_02 7:22

Yeah, yeah, I love that. And you know, um I I've been I started my first business around the same time that you did, and then I went back into the corporate world. And then in early 2010, again, a little bit before 2010, um, I started my business again with my husband, our agency. But um, when I look back, I in a sense, I feel like it was easier, especially like around 2008 to 2012-ish. It was easier, even though we didn't have the tools and platforms and all these different ways of getting in front of our audiences. I personally think it was easier to build and grow your business. Do you think that way as well?

SPEAKER_01 8:10

Well, it's interesting. It was definitely different. And in some ways, it was easier because we didn't have all the options and choices potentially that we have today. So I think in that way it was easier. But I do think it was a lot more expensive to actually, you know, build the business because I remember like, you know, my printing costs for brochures and business cards and like just sheets that I would leave behind, or if I was speaking at a conference, all the things that that went into. And actually, that was one of the ways that I did lead generation in the very early days was you know, showing up at conferences, having booths and all of that. And I remember how much it used to cost to get a booth done and you know, professionally designed and everything ready. It was quite an investment. Whereas when I when I think about today, what I think is easier is the fact that you can really start, particularly something like a coaching business, with not a lot of investment at all, if you're willing to put the time in and really, you know, make it work for you. And we've got this lovely way today where we can work offline in our local community and online, and in the online world, there's no kind of there's no stopping our potential. Now that doesn't mean it's easier, but it does mean that the playing field has leveled a little bit in terms of investment coming into business, but I do think it's noisier because of that. So once you get online, I think, you know, there's there's some really critical aspects of business that you really need to dial in to cut through the noise. Whereas I don't think it was anywhere near as noisy back in, you know, the early 2000s or the late 90s. So I don't know if that answers your question because it's a bit of a yin and a yang answer. But yeah, that is kind of how I feel about it.

SPEAKER_02 10:07

I 100% agree with you. I mean, on one end, um, it it was harder. Like I remember when we wanted to create our first online course. I there was literally no place to go find out how to do this. Like online courses were becoming a thing. It was like hearing about it, and it was just really hard to find out like how do you take your knowledge and turn it into a course? And we had to, for a first course, really wing it. And it took us six months to create our first course. And then when it was finished, we didn't know where to go to publish it. I mean, right now, there's so many options, you don't even know which one to choose. I I personally couldn't find, I did so much digging, I couldn't find where to go to publish our course. And we ended up publishing our course on Udemy. And I always joke that we were course number 12. Of course, I don't know what number we were, but there weren't that many courses, but now look on Udemy, and they're like millions and millions of courses. So I mean, I agree with you on one hand, it because of lack of information and lack of tools and platforms, it was harder. But then, like you said, on the other hand, once you figured out a path, it seemed like um, you know, it was easier because of less noise and less saturations and less options, it was easier to just gain some momentum. But um, I want to go there because I know your coaching and the way that you're building businesses and co-creating with other people and helping them grow their business and coaching has also evolved. So, what does that look like if the the version of you that was helping businesses in 2009 to grow their business versus today? What has changed for you?

SPEAKER_01 12:00

Oh gosh, a lot has changed. It really has. Uh, it's it's a little hard to know where to start. I would say the businesses now are, well, in some ways, completely different. If I look at the people that I'm working with as well, they're very different. So back in 2009, I was still doing an awful lot of leadership development programs that had coaching attached to them. So I was on retainer with a lot of corporate clients, um, and I also have benches of coaches coming in with me. And we were doing full-scale really leadership development across global organizations. And um so that that was what I was doing then. And in many ways, I mean, I was working with resonance, I was working with energy, I was looking at alignment inside of the organizations, and I suppose the easiest way for people to understand the work I was doing is that it was it was conscious leadership, really. I think I I think I called it that then. Um, conscious leadership and and kind of building resonance and harnessing the energy within an organization. But that body of work on resonance has really developed over the years. And I think, you know, as as some people might have heard me say before, in 2019 I became a grandma for the first time. And quite honestly, it it changed everything for me. I mean, people talk about becoming a grandma, but when it actually happens, I don't know, I never really thought of myself as a grandma. And then when when Phoebe came into the world, my first granddaughter, and I was actually privileged to be there at her birth, I don't know, there was a lot of kind of turmoil that started inside of me. And and yes, I was in tears. Everybody in the room was in tears. It was it was just a really hard birth for my daughter. So when Phoebe actually entered the world, it was like relief for us all. And then um what happened was I was holding Phoebe and she was just taking her first few breaths, and I was in tears. And at first it started as normal, just joy and oh wow, and oh, this little soul in my arms just starting to take her first breath. But very, very quickly, Ellie, it turned to what I can only describe as bone-deep sadness. It felt like overwhelming grief, and I didn't know why. Anyway, I'm a meditator. So in the days and weeks, and actually it went into months that followed, I was kind of contemplating what this was and what it meant for me. And it took me into something of a dark night of the soul, it took me into this space of looking back on my career, which, you know, from the outside looking in, had been very successful, financially very successful. We'd and and also we changed a lot of individual lives. You know, I know the impact that my work has on others, and and also in 2009, I was also running resonant coaching, so I was teaching coaches how to integrate energetics and energy and resonance into their work. So that was going really well as well. And I was just at the beginning of realizing that coaches couldn't really make the impact I wanted them to make in the world in a way, and what they wanted to make, if they didn't understand business. And it was just before I started Coaches Business School. So, in this space, I was looking back on my career, and what I found was that I'd made a lot of people really financially successful. And was that success to me? And actually, that was what I sat with, and I realized no, it wasn't. And Phoebe, my granddaughter, had really catapulted me into this space because not only is she female, but she's also Hispanic because her her dad is from Peru and her mom's from England, so she really is multicultural, and I just I just had this kind of visceral feeling that this was not the world I wanted to bring her into. And in that dark night of the soul, one of the reasons I first got into leadership and and coaching was because there weren't many women in the C-suite. And back when I first started in the late 1990s, there that we had, I think, six percent representation of women in the C-suites now it's eight percent, right? So, in terms of the global, the big impact that I wanted to make with my work, I was like, am I really making a difference here? Does my work really matter in the meaningful ways that I want it to? So I realized I'd been a lot in the I mean conversation. So my coaching, my leadership, my team, my organization, right? And I realized that that was almost like coaching with the blinkers on. That was like, you know, let's look at you and your life and your work and your career, and let's really kind of put the blinkers on, put you in this bubble, and then coach you to be the best you can be, which is great, there's a place for that. But I realized I'd outgrown that because outside of that bubble of the I and the me and the mind, there's a whole context of a world that needs help. And so I realized that if I continued to work as I always had, then we'd always get the individual focus changes we'd always had. And so I realized that I need to expand the scope. So that was when my work, my work's always been purpose-driven and profitable, but I realized that I needed to double down now. I wasn't willing to just work for performance, if you like. I wanted to bring the humanity back into business and leadership, and I only want to work with people who want to get outside of that bubble. That bubble's still very, very important. The individual is where it all begins, but we also need to be looking at the context. And if we're a leader, you know, what else does the world need from my leadership and from my life, quite frankly? And who am I being? Not just what am I doing. And so my whole work took a really big shift towards sacred change makers because I feel this work is a calling. I don't believe it's just my purpose. I feel I've transcended the purpose now, and I'm in this space of doing work that I can't not do. I have to do this work now, and in a way, I guess I'm doing it for Phoebe, but I'm doing it for all of us because don't we all want to live in a better world than we're in today? And you know, I don't profess to have all the answers, but I at least want to open the conversations about collectively what can we do? And so that's how my work has in a way completely shifted since then.

SPEAKER_02 19:19

Yes, oh my gosh, what a journey. Um, I so many questions I have. I I want to go back to the me, my, what was that? The I, me, my. Yeah. Yeah. And I want to hear more about it. But when you were talking about, you know, how your your work, the the way right now has different meaning, different purpose. That's where it's at, you know, when you wake up every morning and there's something bigger than yourself that you're waking up to, and there's this work that it really lights you up. I uh for me, that has been the difference, I would say, between 2010 version of me and today's version of me, where I'm being led. Like it, I it is my obligation. I want to do this. I'm privileged that I get to do this. Is that what you mean by me, I, my?

SPEAKER_01 20:14

Well, I mean mine is it's really it's very intellectual work, is another way of describing it. So it's Jane in her head using her knowledge, you know, and and I've got a lot of lived experience at this point in the career in my careers, but yeah, I can also see it as transcending the knowledge into wisdom. So, what that means for me is what's my lived felt experience and and also kind of what are we evolving into? And it it opens up questions like with my clients, things like, and it's also true for me, is who do I want to become? Right? Because a lot of people come to coaching with challenges and issues and you know conflicts and problems quite rightly, and coaching is a great place to explore all of that, but it's also a great place to explore things like, so I'm gonna go into my speak now, like energy and and frequency and you know, and and levels of consciousness, if you like. You know, where are you operating from? And are you aware that there's all these other people, you know, that are potentially around you living in very different worlds? Do you know how to connect with them? Because that's what resonance is. It's not just energy that's free-floating around, it's energy that connects with a quality connection. So really understanding the spectrum in which we all operate, lead, live, work, love, whatever, is really important. Um, because I think my work now, one of the things I would say, and it sounds a bit, I don't know, it sounds a bit big to say it this way, but I do believe that if we only look at change horizontally and we don't look at the vertical axis, which is really speaking to consciousness, right? And we don't elevate our consciousness, then we're we're always going to end up with the kind of fractured world that we're living in today that's kind of uncertain and chaotic. And, you know, frankly, in many ways, a lot of our systems are built for the minority, not the majority. So there's always going to be people that don't have access. So what kind of a world do we want to live in? Not just what do I want to live in, but do we want to live in? And how can I contribute to that with my life, with my business, with my leadership, whatever it is? Because it all counts. Because we're all making an impact every minute of every day. But the question is, are you making the impact you want to have? Right? So it's kind of raising awareness to how life really works and what's really going on beneath the surface. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 23:06

So in a lot of ways, instead of just being reactive to what's in front of you, being more proactive, I love what you said. You know, you we're all making an impact, but is it the impact that you really want to make? Um, love that. Um, you've brought up the resonance part of the conversation. And I use that a lot in my work as well. But to me, resonance means um it might mean different things than when you use the word resonance. So can you take us deep into your work and what does resonance mean to you? And how do you talk about it and help people to become resonant?

SPEAKER_01 23:47

Yeah. I suppose the the place it starts is really understanding your home frequency. And I have a map of nine resonance codes that are actually aligned with levels of consciousness. Um, they align with like Hawkins' work and Barrett's work, and it quite frankly, they align also with the Shakira system. So knowing what level of energy you are currently operating from is really important because if you don't know where you're operating from, you don't know what's conflicting and pulling you down in energy, and you don't know where the rising frequency is that's actually calling to you in a way and and and kind of waving at you to come up in terms of frequency. And so, really, understanding your own frequency is really where everything begins. But I think that in itself is not enough because we need to understand also, you know, if I'm like I'm talking to you right now, can I read your energy? Can I have a sense of what frequency you're at? Because there's something we say a lot in coaching, which is, you know, we must meet people where they are, right? Yeah, but what does that mean? Well, in energetic terms, that means I want to resonate with you in conversation here, Ellie. So I'm listening and I'm watching for you know energetic indicators that tell me kind of where are you, and therefore, where should I bring my frequency to so that we can resonate on the same level. So there's there's um a whole body of work around the foundations of human resonance, because the other thing that we don't talk a lot about is right now between you and I, there's an energetic field, and you know, and I can already tell you're empathic, you're sensitive. So I know you're quite aware of this field, but a lot of people are not. So, what is my energetic field? This is where it all begins, my field that I'm inviting you into, and then what's your field that you're inviting me into? And then we kind of get this Venn diagram of overlap in between us, right? Now, here's the thing: do I have an energetic field that enables you to come into contact with me, into relationship with me, and still be able to be authentically yourself? Right? Because some people have fields that are very open and they they meet people where they are, and so it enables the other person coming into the field to be completely and utterly themselves. And then there's people you'll meet where you go into their field, and oh no, they want to change you so that you're like them because they they are not flexible in their energy, they can't meet you where they are, and I won't say they won't, that's unusual, but it's usually that they can't because they don't understand that they're a closed field, they're not open to adapting to the energy with you or anybody else or the environment that they're in. They'll be exactly the same wherever they go. And in today's world, particularly for people in leadership positions, that's problematic. Why? Well, because it opens up something that I call a resonance gap between me and somebody else, or me and this person who has a closed field. But if I can be adaptive in my field, it's not about letting go of myself. It's not about losing myself in the relationship, which actually a lot of females do, especially if the closed energy is a male, where we're kind of socialized and conditioned to just step into that and allow the male energy to dominate. But I stand for the full integration of feminine and masculine energies. This is not about gender. And so, therefore, I can actually walk into somebody's field because the true thing about resonance is if I'm with somebody who's like me, right, it's so easy. We just meet a stranger, we click, and it's just like, yeah, okay, we really get on. But the true test of resonance is when I meet somebody who's opposite to me, who's who feels very dissonant and kind of funky in their energy, and I don't quite understand them fully, but I can feel their field, and I can, because I have the language of resonance, I can understand where they are and what they need, and therefore I can go and meet them, right? So it really is, it's like having more language, more awareness, more accessibility to be able to meet people where they are, especially if they're in a dissonant energy with mine, and then I can create that resonance quite with awareness and with alignment and attunement. So if I'm showing up resonance, because of course I'm a system, so it starts with the inner resonance, but then it goes outside to can I align to the environment and the relationships I'm within. So you asked me about my definition of resonance, and it's simply this, and it really is the vision also for sacred changemakers, which is I hold a vision of a world where we can all resonate with ourselves, we can resonate with each other, and we can resonate with all of life. That's it, and in some ways it's a remembering, it's going back to what matters most because resonance in energy scientifically now, we know that this is we we've grounded it in science now, so it's not just some woo-woo aspect of of life and and leadership. It's actually we have the science to back it up, and we also know that resonance is primal. We were born resonant, but whether we die resonant is actually our choice, whether we live resonantly is our choice, and unfortunately, a lot of our big systems, a lot of our cultures, particularly here in the West, pull us out of resonance. So that's why my work is all about bringing people back to what matters most, which is resonance. Because if you're not resonant, you won't feel happy, you can't sustain relationships, you can't be successful. And that's true of a person, a human being, as it is of a business, because those are separate energies as well. That was a long answer there.

SPEAKER_02 30:29

No, that that was that was amazing. And um and you touched on that. I mean, it starts with the person to understand themselves, like and we talk in like in marketing language, we talk about, like you said, you know, get to understand the other person, speak that person's language or meet them where they're at. But if you don't know who you are and everything is external to who you are, then you're always ship shaping, changing your yeah. So I mean, how does that how does that translate into the way that you see resonance, right? Because you you mentioned if you are understanding yourself better and you're resonating at your highest level. And I don't think you use those words, but that's the way I just said yeah, there's some truth in what you said.

SPEAKER_01 31:24

So I'd love to take it into the marketing space for a minute. Can I do that?

SPEAKER_00 31:28

And then that's what I was gonna go.

SPEAKER_01 31:31

So I work with a lot of I work with a lot of coaches and founders and and and here's what I find as a this is a it is a sweeping generalization, but there's there's a lot of truth in this. So um when a coach comes into the coaching uh arena and they get trained up, they often think that um, you know, they look at what what's really valuable to them, what they love to do, and they start to build a business around their own passions, which is great, and I'm not saying it's wrong, it's lovely, right? And then they start trying to market their work, and in doing so, they've probably got a group of friends or colleagues around them, and they'll start saying to these people, um, you know, I'm thinking of doing this for my coaching, I'm thinking of specializing in this area. What do you think? And because this is their inner circle of friends and people, they'll say, Oh, that's great, because they love what the coach loves, because they're probably at very similar frequencies, or else they wouldn't feel as resonant to be so close in a friendship, right? So, what happens is they start asking everybody, and then they put their offer together and they go out into the world, and then it's just crickets. No, nobody wants to buy the offer. And here's what I find a lot of the time. And I'll be interested to see if this makes sense to you, Ellie, because I know this is your specialist area, right? So, what happens is so say there are that I'll just I'll just pick a code, and you don't really need to know what what what it means. But say there are, I don't know, a lot of coaches are uh code five. Code five is all about um, it's like the throat chakra. It's about speaking my truth, it's about being quite intellectual, you know, building the architecture of my coaching so that you know it's kind of got some rigor in it. I'm not just floating around. I actually know my work if I'm in leadership or whatever it is that I'm in. And so, you know, a level five will will build what I call a level five, um, a resonant code five business, meaning they're marketing to resonant code five people. But the problem is resonant code five people might love what they're doing, but they don't need them, they're not willing to pay for them because where they should really be looking is a couple of codes down. So at level code, say three, level code three is where a lot of our education systems take, for example, leaders to, because this is where we're kind of confident, we put our jackets on, we puff our chests up, and we go out into the world, faking it till we make it, and we're we know what we're good at, and we can kind of do that really well. But inside we're thinking, is this okay? Am I doing the right thing? Self-esteem and healing, all of our traumas are still usually intact at level three. We've not done our own inner work yet because we haven't come up through four and the heart chakra. We haven't opened, we haven't forgiven ourselves for things that we're not happy about, and our own childhood trauma is still very alive in our in our energy field. But at five, we've done a lot of that work. We've done a lot of the inner work because we're now into our truth and our purpose and a higher frequency of living. So, what the level five coach or founder needs to do is look down to to start speaking in marketing terms to somebody at a level three because they have a sense of level five, but they don't know how to get there. So, what I'm really speaking to now is come down here because you've already done the journey, and you can build a signature transformation that you take people from, you know, A to Z here, and this is the transformation that knocks out all of your competitors because nobody else offers what you do, but you speak to the people that need it, not just the ones that think it's a good idea because it already resonates with them because they've already been on the journey. You're actually looking for the ones that need this transformation that you can offer so well. So it's a shift. You're intentionally creating a resonance gap so that you can help people ascend to your level. It's very hard to work with people that are above you, right? But to work a couple of levels underneath means you know what it's like to be where they are. You know the path from where they are to where you are today. And that makes coaching have a real depth to it. And it also means that you'll be talking to your clients exactly where they are, you'll be inside their heads, and it's almost like you own a little bit of real estate in their heads. So even if they don't buy immediately, they're gonna keep thinking about you until they're ready to buy. So you just need to nurture them until they're ready. But if they're at level five like you, they're never gonna buy because they don't need you, they're already where you are. Does that make sense?

SPEAKER_02 36:50

I love that. And I love like how you're speaking about this from the energetics of it. Um, in like in the, I don't know, the coaching term of it. I mean, we always hear like every single one of us have been through something professionally or personally, and the journey that we've taken that has brought us to where we are today and have you know gone through whatever struggle that was or the problem that we wanted to solve as a result of that professional, personal experience that we went through. So the people who are who we are here to help, and they're the most compatible in terms of how we can help them are the people who are where we were, let's say two, three levels in a version of us. And I I love that you talked about, you know, when you from the energetics you said level five, you talk to level five, because this is something that I see all the time. And frankly, if I'm being truthful, I've made that mistake. And sometimes I still make that mistake. And even when I like, you know, go to chat GPT and I'm trying to turn an idea into copy, I have to fight with chat GPT. Like, I'm not talking to other marketing people. I'm talking to, you know, because that's truly what a lot of us do. We talk to as if we're selling to people like us, you know, we're giving them the solution that they um it is so intuitive in one hand, like you can understand that, but we do we all do that. We all make that mistake. And I I love that you bring the energetics of it into the conversation. And and the way you describe that, and to me, that makes more sense than the coaching world is telling us, you know, sell to the version of you that was two, three years, um, you know, behind like the way you describe it was fantastic. Yes, it makes total sense. So, where does alignment fit into this whole resonance by definition?

SPEAKER_01 38:54

I'm glad you brought that up. Yeah, because so so resonance is four stages. It starts internally with your own level of awareness. Like, I am I even aware that there's something going on beneath the surface of my life, right? Am I even aware of my beliefs? Am I aware of who I'm being, how I'm showing up in the world? Am I aware of any of that? Because we know, and research bears this out, that you know, when you show up in a room, your energy speaks before you ever open your mouth to talk. So are you aware of how you're showing up? That's that's the first thing. The second thing is alignment. And I'm gonna speak to this in a very simplistic way, but there's obviously nine codes here that we could be talking to. But really it in a in a very simplistic way to think about do I say what I do I do what I say I will do when I say I will do it, right? So, in other words, is what's most important to me on the inside, is that part of the work that I'm doing in the world, right? Am I aligned with what matters most to me? Right? So that's like an alignment. And then am I kind of is in my energetics, am I aware of what's going on or or or am I not really? Because you can't move without the awareness, you can't move into aligning the energy that you need. So this means that you show up resonant. If your awareness is in place and your alignment is in place, you show up resonant. And it's the same with the business. The business has a different energy. Is is the business being aware and is it aligned? Right? So, because very often you can have a gap between the coach, particularly in service-based businesses, a gap between the coach and the actual services and offers that they have. So that's the two internal ones. Now we start to build a bridge. So if I'm the coach and I'm looking at my business, one of the things that I'm looking for when I start working with someone is, you know, are there any resonance gaps here? Is it is everything in are they aware and is it aligned, right? So that's the first thing I'm looking at. But I but here for the coach, looking at their business, that's attunement. That's me building a bridge from my energy to the business that I'm going to be building and growing and this the offers that I'm going to create and all of that. But also, this is to any environment I'm in, any relation, any relationship that I'm in. So I'm really looking out at the relational field now, and I'm saying, do I have the capacity to build a bridge from me to you, from me to somebody else who's not quite as resonant with me? You know, they're not at the same level. Can I meet my opposite person and still form resonance between us in our energetic fields? Can I do that? Because that really tests how strong your energetics are. And can I do that without losing myself in relationship? And I keep talking about that because that was one of my patterns in the earlier days. I would like to be with a CEO and just be who he needed me to be and completely lose myself in that relationship because I just thought it was all about him. Well, that's not actually how you get the best results out of your clients. You bring the best of what you have and bring out the best in them. So I see coaching as unlocking my wisdom, but also unlocking theirs. Because in this space between us, in this bridge, if you like, this energetic field that we're co-creating together, and sometimes the other person is very open to that and might not even be aware what they're doing, but they're very open and warm and friendly, and they will meet you, but they don't have language for what they're doing, and sometimes they're very closed. So, how if they're closed, how do you look for the openings? You know, what is it that you need to do to be able to find a way to kind of bring the energetic feels together? So are you feel sensitive? That's in the attunement piece as well. So it goes beyond alignment into attunement. Can I attune my frequency to any environment, any room I walk into, any relationship that I'm in? And we all have relationships that challenge us. I mean, I think like back to my parents and stuff, like those relationships, and my and my kids when they were at home and little, you know, I could be like teaching and speaking resonance on really big stages, come home and I'd be like, Jacob, have you done the dishwasher? And straight down, I'm down in the lower energy fuels. So we are so I've been talking about codes as developmental codes, but what we need to realize is we move through the codes in all of them, usually, in any one day. So knowing where I am in the codes, knowing if I'm on a positive or a negative spiral, because that matters too. And then the final step is integration. So what that means is Now it's become habitual. It's my behavior. I've actually I've actually taken my awareness and my alignment, and my attunement to such a level that I don't have to be conscious about it anymore. Now I'm competent at this level without having to be like aware of what's going on and being responsive to what's going on. So I'm not having to adapt. And the key thing about once we get into the higher frequencies, and I do want to say the higher frequencies are not superior to the lower ones, right? A lot of people think this because we're so conditioned to elevating. And there's no doubt that developmentally, I'd love for our society to elevate its consciousness, because I look at everything through this lens of resonance. And if we could elevate our consciousness in society, a lot of the issues that we have today just fall away because they're not even a thing at that level of consciousness. Because if we're in unconditional love, for example, we've come up through the heart and we're speaking our truth at level five, then you know, a lot of the challenges that we're having, you know, in so many governments around the world right now, wars, violence, all these things fall away because they don't even come into our vernacular of something that we would do. We just wouldn't at the higher frequencies. But then again, if I talk about what's great about the lower frequencies, the lower frequencies are definitely about being in this physical world that we live in. It's 3D living. And down here, you know, I do work with some clients that kind of love floating around in the higher vibrations, which is great until you want to build a business. Because you need architecture, you need systems, you need structures. You've got to come down, down to earth to build those structures. And that's where the full spectrum becomes really important. Because if we can have a vision that's in the higher frequency and we can build in the lower frequencies in the 3D energy, but yet we can show up in 5D. And then when we meet people that are very intellectual, logical, left-brained, as a lot of leaders are, then we can come into 4D and be there with them. Now it's almost like my mum used to say to me when I was younger, she says, Jane, the world is your oyster. And that's if you understand the hidden energetics beneath life, I feel that that's that's where it takes you because you read and understand things that most of us have no idea what's going on beneath the surface. And when you do, you can align, you can attune, and you can resonate. And so everything just gets a hell of a lot easier.

SPEAKER_02 46:55

Yes, that beautifully said. Interesting to hear your thoughts on this. Um, I mean, it on some level, as you are becoming more aware and you're going through these steps, um, it might be easier when you are in person where you are, you know, figuring out who you are and how you relate to everyone around you. How do you think about or talk about or see the way that because you know, in an online world, um a lot of the impressions gets built based on what someone sees or what we share, or you know, we're not even in the room with them. How does that translate into an online world?

SPEAKER_01 47:40

Yeah. Well, just like remote healing, we don't need to be in the same room, basically. Um, because we're one of the things we forget when we're this side of a computer in our own home office or whatever, is we think that we're isolated, we're on our own. And actually we're not. We're actually all part of a an integrated relational field that doesn't only have humans in it, it has all of life within it. So, you know, in terms of remote healing and and quantum mechanics is now showing this, string theory is now showing this to be true. They've done all kinds of experiments where there's one in particular that's that really, really struck me when I heard it about a decade ago, where they took a number of participants and they actually put them into um, well, they they took a swab of their cheek cells and then they drove them 300 miles away. And then, so the the the cheek cells are 300 miles away in a laboratory being watched, and the individual whose cheek cells is 300 miles away was shown some very violent imagery on a computer. And we all know that cells contract when there's something, and the cheek cells 300 miles away contracted, right? And this happened with uh I don't I can't remember what the test sample size was, but um it was it was a it was a pure correlation, so it was large enough to be relevant, and that to me shows me that not only am I in a relational field, are we all in a relational field, but we're all impacting each other all the time. And if I'm in a relationship with like some of my family are in the UK, even though I'm here all these thousands of miles away, if I think about them, if I send them good energy, whatever, it registers right there, and we know this to be true. So, in terms of like really looking at how this fits into the online world, honestly, it doesn't really make a difference because we're connected in the relational field, whether you're here or you're thousands of miles away, and it's just the way we think about it that's different. And I will say, when I moved to America, all of my clients were in Europe, and I was not doing hardly anything online, right, at all. And then I started working. Well, I I used to work on the telephone before Zoom came around, and then I started working on Zoom very early on in the really early days, and I was really cynical about because I do deep work with clients, and I was like, I'm not gonna be able to do this, like because we're so far away and I'm gonna miss their cues. And and I will tell you, I get far greater like depth of work out of people sometimes online than I do offline because I'm not right there with them. Particularly people who are more introverted, because they don't they don't like the fact that I'm stood in close proximity, they can feel my energy, they feel like I'm watching them. This is what some of them have said. I was like, oh, but particularly for introverts, yeah, because they feel safe in their own space, people are more relaxed, and therefore, in terms of the relational field, I can say now, and it's it's taken me some time to really test this belief and come around to it. But I I now know it makes no difference really. And don't get me wrong, I still love being in rooms with people, but that's kind of a personal preference. Um, but that in terms of the work and the efficacy of the work, this it's really no different. But some people need a bit of help to get into it, but uh yeah, and it also gives them privacy, like you know, when I used to go to people's offices, particularly in organizational life, I'd be walking across like a whole open plan office to get to somebody's corner office, and everybody knows, like in the team, the coach is coming, like the coaches. It's kind of a bit like that. And then a lot of them have glass in their offices, and then that can be off-putting as well, because I work somatically sometimes, and then people are like stood up, like you know, and it just looks a bit odd for them. So I think they can move to a space where you know they're not being watched, they can be completely private and they can go through the transformation and do whatever's needed without fearing that other people are hearing or watching them do it.

SPEAKER_02 52:31

Yeah, yeah. No, a hundred percent, a hundred percent. I mean, even if we kind of take everything you said and translate it into the marketing side of things. When I hear people tell me, you know, when I mean person, when I'm on a stage or someone's talking to me, it actually this is one of the biggest um sticky points right now for a lot of people who pre-COVID, they were able to really easily be in a room with their prospects and uh be able to gain that prospect's trust and get clients. Now they're scrambling and they don't know what that translates to in terms of online. And it goes back to everything you just said. You know, I I always tell them the reason is because you are detaching yourself from who you are. When you're in the room, you're probably not aware of this, but you are being yourself. You are speaking from your inner truth, from your inner knowing. But then when you're online, you're really detached from who you are. And without realizing it, you're taking on someone else's voice, someone else's um scripts or formulas. And so they're not really experiencing you. And so everything you said really 100%. I agree with you. Love that, love that. So um, I know you have a community um that you teach all of this resonance and all the levels. Can you tell us a little bit about that? And where would my audience get more information about it?

SPEAKER_01 54:04

Sure. So we run the Resonance Collective and it is an invitation-only community, so there isn't a sales page that I can send people to, but um, yeah, they can find out um everything about me at sacredchangemakers.com. And the community is lovely because we're doing this deep work. We're doing not only the energetics, but we're doing the resonance in service of a regenerative world. And so, you know, on both sides of that sentence, it feels really important work and it feels really meaningful to me. But the key thing about it is it's uh, I'd say it's a calling. Yeah, people get called to this work. I don't think you just decide in your head one day you're gonna do it, I think you just know on the inside. So um, yeah, so that's what my work is all about these days. It uh I can't not do this work. Um, and yeah, and I want to be able to look Phoebe in her eye on her 21st birthday and say, you know, I did everything I could to help make this world a better place for you, for all of life, and for the generations to come. So yeah, I think it's a nice one now.

SPEAKER_02 55:19

So beautiful. Well, thank you for doing this work, and thank you for bringing awareness to this and for being here. I've really enjoyed this conversation. And I know there's so many layers and so many, but we'll be here for hours. But um, thank you. It's been a pleasure having you.

SPEAKER_01 55:37

Yeah, Ellie, thank you so much. I've really enjoyed it. Thank you.