SPEAKER_01 0:00

There's a younger version of me that feared responsibility. It feared being successful. It feared that, oh, if I become successful, then people are gonna expect this from me. Because growing up, also too, I saw that yes, while my dad, very loving, very caring, but deep down, he wasn't always happy. And there's a part of me, I guess, that came up with that conclusion, not that he said it, that oh, he must have so much money, but he is so unhappy.

SPEAKER_00 0:34

Hello and welcome to Marketing Your Truth, the podcast for entrepreneurs who want to grow a fulfilling and impactful business with clarity, integrity, and ease, without performing, chasing trends, or losing their voice. I'm your host, Ellen Atoly, and I'm really glad you're here. Let's get started. Most of us think that to be visible to our ideal buyers, we need the right marketing strategy to show up on the right platforms, learn the ins and outs of that platform, and figure out the exact approach that gets us seen and found by the people that we want to reach. And that's part of the story, no doubt about it. But there is something else that factors into whether you actually get the result that you're after. Something that sits underneath the strategy entirely. My guest today is Nene Dabot, an emotional empowerment strategist and the founder of Revive Her. Nene spends her days helping entrepreneurs recognize the patterns that hold them back from growing the business that they deserve. We go deep into what Nene calls visibility wounds, five patterns so well disguised that they can look like productivity or leadership, creativity, or even generosity, while they're quietly keeping you placed small. We talk about the difference between being visible and actually being seen. We talk about why, just push through it is somewhat the worst advice out there. And Nene gets really honest about her own healing journey, including a wound that she didn't expect to find underneath the one she thought should already work through. So as you listen, pay attention to which one sounds like you. Are you overgiving to feel credible? Are you playing it safe to avoid pushback? Are you grinding instead of flowing or chasing the next idea before the one that you're working on has already taken root? Or are you barring somebody else's voice because yours doesn't feel like enough? Here's my conversation with Nene. One of the first places that I want to go with you, Nene, is around visibility. Now, we all know, and based on the conversations that I've had over two decades and working with clients, the very first place that all of us normally go to when we want to take our solution to the market is how do I get in front of our ideal buyers, ideal customers and clients, which makes total sense because if we don't, then how are we going to sell our stuff, right? So, and that turns out to be some variation of social media or speaking on a stage or being on a podcast and so on and so forth. Now, from where I'm looking at this entire visibility conversation, there are several layers to it, right? There's a layer where it's just tactical, meaning where do I go to be able to get in front of my audience? Is it social media? Is it on a stage? Is it on a podcast? Do I start my own podcast? And then there's another layer which is all about strategy. How do I become strategic about when I'm there, right? When I'm on social media, how do I make sure that my voice doesn't blend in? How do I make sure that what I'm saying is going to attract the right people to me? And then there is another layer underneath of that. And I believe your work lives in that layer. And I really want to go there with you. And that layer is um, in fact, one of the layers that if it's not dealt with, none of the other stuff is ever going to work. Um, you call it visibility wounds. And the way I see it or I've experienced it for myself with my clients is that we all have certain things. It could be a mindset block, it could be um a pattern, it could be a habit. Certain things keep us, like it could give the same tactics and strategies in terms of visibility to two people, and one fully takes advantage of it and can get results, and one doesn't. And in my opinion and experience, it's because of what sits at that lower level, which you call visibility wound. So can you talk to us a little bit about that, please?

SPEAKER_01 5:19

You're absolutely right, Ellie. I do call them visibility wounds, and you know, mostly because a lot of the work that I do, I do more deep layer, deep, deep, deep level work. Um, and um, you know, there's one thing that I've come to recognize is that most people are living in a comparison-based culture, well, most of us entrepreneurs are living in a comparison-based culture, right? Well, this person went on social media and said that they went online for the for 30 days and they got uh 100,000 followers and this and and the fourth. And so if they can do it, that means I must do it too. And the one thing that we're missing is the fact that we're all individuals. So when I talk about uh visibility wounds, what I'm really talking about are there are actually five core wounds that um I mostly talk about if I'm working with an entrepreneur, because you know I work with women in transitions, and even entrepreneurship is a transition. So it's so some of these wounds are either around value, okay, um, and these are the people who are like they're constantly going on on social media. And I think I I think I confessed to you a long time ago that I'm one of those people sometimes when I'm when I when I try to over-explain stuff or to overteach stuff, I want to show up as this expert, okay. That's uh that's that's a wound, there's a value wound there. And um, you know, for the most part, maybe that wound might be speaking in the concept of um maybe for that person, like the person who's feeling like the value wound it might be, oh, if I don't give them enough, then they'll realize I'm not enough. So there's that I'm I'm not enough kind of speaking from that concept. And so when a person like that goes onto social media and they're listening to a person who says, Oh, I want to onto social media for 30 days and I did a stretch and I had a hundred thousand followers or whatever it is, they're going on there and mimicking that other person or following the other person's strategy. Not that it's a wrong strategy, but they're following that strategy, but then they're speaking from the space of their wounds, they're speaking from the space of I don't feel enough. And there are even some people who might say, Well, I see Ellie going out there and doing all of that, but I can't seem to go online and do this consistently. And so if the wound is at the core speaking, it's going to one, either not only limit you from showing up with your full energy and from you pouring out your full value, it can also, it can also, it can also cause you to play small. So, as I mentioned, there are about five different wounds that I mostly I've seen with most entrepreneurs. One, as I mentioned, is a value wound. The other one is a safety wound where they're not feeling safe enough. They're the ones that maybe if they want to um, like the like the unspoken uh fear that might be showing up at the core of that wound is if I show my full power, I will be misunderstood or punished. People who are living that safety wound most likely are people who grew up when they spoke their truth, they were punished. And so, you know, that conditioning has caused them to always seek that safety of I should play small, I shouldn't say too much because if I do, the outside world is gonna punish me. So that's another wound. So there's a value wound, there's a safety wound, there's the effort wound. Those are the people who are, you know, they're passionate about what they do, they love what they do, but um the unspoken fear is if it feels easy and it's fun, it's not real work and it won't pay the bill. So what happens is you find them grinding. They're the ones that are doing the constant, you know. Uh, I won't even call it nine to five. What's the maybe six to eleven grinding? They're constantly out there pouring out content and doing stuff like that. They're in the more ways than when they're doing too much. Because maybe somewhere down the road they were punished for not doing enough. That's a third wound. Um, the fourth one is what I call the identity wound. Okay, the identity wound, the unspoken fear that speaks from there is, for example, if I commit to one path, I'll lose my freedom and I'll become boring. Now, these are the people they're multi-passionate, they have so many different ideas. But let's say they bring up one idea and they see it's going good, and then they get to a place where maybe things plateau as businesses do, then they feel, oh, I'm not getting enough. You know, a few weeks ago I had 10,000 people follow me. Now all of a sudden, I haven't had one person open my email. And so, guess what they do? They go out there and they keep running and they keep, you know, um opening new ideas, like bringing up new stuff. There's that concept. If I lose, if I commit to this one path, then people are going to think I'm boring or people are going to think, you know, that I'm still, they don't want to be, they don't, they, they, they don't want to be be. I don't want to say to be put in a box because nobody wants to be put in a box, but they don't want to commit per se. Because commitment to them means I'm losing my freedom. So that's an identity wound. Okay. And then the last one, the fifth one, is the belonging wound. These are people, the unspoken fear that speaks from that wound is I don't have a brand of my own, so I have to borrow someone else's to be safe. I'm sure you've seen those. The social media market is saturated with that, the chameleons, the ones that are constantly mimicking. They go on, they see the social media influencer who just got viral last week, and their cover page is set one way, they're doing this, and all of a sudden they're like, Oh, let me go and follow this person. And so they're not consistent with the message, they're constantly mimicking and mirroring. And that concept, too, you know, that feeling, that feeling of being an outsider of not feeling belonging again for your listeners, you know, they're listening to this. I want you to tap into all of these different wounds that I've mentioned and really, really go back into, let's say, your childhood. Where might you have felt like you didn't belong? You know, where might you have been pushed to your side aside, your ideas put to the side, or you just felt like I'm the odd one out. And in your messaging, you're trying so hard to belong that your message is not even your own anymore. So those are the ones that I speak about. So the strategies are good, Ellie. You know, I'm a student of marketing. I am, you know, a marketing student, you know, like I'm learning what it takes. I get all of that. All of these things need to be put in place. We need an email list, you know. We need um a funnel, we need all of these things. But if all of these things are put into place and yet you come out and you show up to your audience from the space of that wound, believe it or not, the energy of that wound is going to speak through. People are gonna pick up on it, and you end up most likely feeling like an imposter.

unknown 12:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 12:09

Because you're not true to yourself and you're not aligned.

SPEAKER_00 12:12

100%, 100%. Um, so what I want to do is go deep into these wounds because you you touched on each of those. And by the way, as you were going through them, uh there were some of them I thought, hmm, when I started my business, that was a wound for me. And it is clear I've worked through that. And there were a couple of them, I'm like, hmm, it seems like I'm working through those right now. And um, I could also, as you were going through them, I was thinking about people that I've worked over the years. I'm like, haha, they had this wound or this other wound. So what I want to do is as you were going through them, you were talking about the, you know, how it is manifesting itself. But it's also good to go through each of those and talk about, you know, uh outside of like what you do, but what in terms of what is going to keep us from doing? So, you know, everyone can get an understanding of am I really dealing with this? And is and it could be several. I mean, each of us could be dealing with several of these, you know, at this time.

SPEAKER_01 13:26

Multiple. A lot of people manifest, believe it or not, with more. And um, I I know, I know I did a workshop, you know, not all, you know, uh a little while back, and I remember somebody saying, you know, I've observed that some of these wounds are sometimes seasonal for me, they pop up based on certain things. And so I do see, and she asked, can be can can I be a hybrid? And I said, Yes, see, we are complex human beings, we're not stuck in one. The whole goal, Ellie, and I'm glad that you're doing this, we're having this conversation, is to create an awareness, it's not to stick people in a box to say, Well, this is the wound, you have an effort wound, and so because of that, no, it's just to bring that awareness because when when you shine the light on that shadow part of you, the dark side of you, the side of you that you know is painful, it hurts, it you know, you don't that you hide, then you become more aware. And so when it starts to manifest, because believe it or not, this is one thing too that I wanted to say. Most of these visibility wounds, they are so well disguised that they actually manifest. So, for one person, you might have two people who have got the effort wound. One person might manifest it as productivity, and the other person might manifest it as creativity. So, if you're not careful, maybe you from the outside looking in might not recognize that they both are carrying the effort wound. So that's why this is really true to the person who's listening to the sound of my voice right now to really tap into because they know them themselves better to say this I kind of feel resonates. These are the fears that I operate from or that show up in my space whenever it's time for me to be visible or to show up for meetings or to go and pitch myself. These could potentially be the wounds that might be stopping me or keeping me stuck.

SPEAKER_00 15:15

Yeah, absolutely. Um, I mean, as you as you said, we're all complex human beings. And um, the first step, like you said, it is awareness. Otherwise, a lot of the stuff that we do and it comes to us naturally, we don't realize that um what's happening in the background. And so as a result, what I hear a lot of times when I work work with clients, um, you know, the the conversation is like, I don't understand why maybe I'm too lazy, that's why I'm not consistent, or I'm I'm just afraid of doing this, or and sometimes it actually disguises itself and we put other labels on it, like I'm busy, or I was sick, or I didn't have, you know, this and this, or I'm not ready yet, or I'm not technical yet. So we actually create these other levels of labels and um different things on top of that to protect ourselves. So when we are aware, when we bring awareness to what's happening, at least then that's the first step to say, okay, this is exactly what's happening. And the more aware we become, then we can deal with it properly. So um, the very first wound that you talked about was a value wound. And this one, the way that um as you were describing it, I was thinking about it was I I see I saw this was in me for a long time, and I see this with a lot of people. And this is about um when we feel like for some people, maybe the manifestation is that I have to prove my worth by giving a lot of value, and that could be when you show up on social media, I have to make sure that I'm sharing so much for people to know that I am credible, I am an expert, or if I'm putting together an offer, the way that I can um prove to people that this offer is valuable, I have to give them everything, right? And that is such a bad place to be because no matter how much you give, um, you're always gonna feel like you have to prove your worth even more. And it you also minimize your what you bring into the table because you are looking at your expertise and the transformations that only you can bring into the table in terms of how much you give, not what the transformation is. So, how other ways like this one particular wound manifests itself?

SPEAKER_01 17:56

So, um one way that you can look, or one thing that you want to ask yourself is am I over-explaining just because I want to feel enough? Right? Do I not feel seen? And is you know, the context of my message, is it just to feel seen, or is it really to provide service? Do I feel like I need to spend 10 hours just to prepare for a one-minute video? Now, now, of course, that's been a little bit, but you but you and I both know what that can look like. That obsessive wanting to do one more research, wanting to get one more certification, right? Wanting to like to add one more thing. Most of the time, these are people that you find with the 67 browsers open. They're constantly um looking for more, where at the end of the day, the key word is I, you know, I want to be seen as the expert. I want to be valued, I want to be respected, you know. I want them to see, you know, um, I want them to see my worth. I want them to see that I'm smart. Does that answer your question?

SPEAKER_00 19:09

Yes, yes. So um when I first started my coaching business, the very first online course that I was creating, um, when it um came to the part where I was recording the course, I ended up re-recording the entire course several times, module after module, lesson after lesson. And every single time that I wanted to do that, that the desire or the that knee-jerk reaction, like I gotta do this, was well, I forgot to say this one thing, or I mispronounced this one thing. Or um, and and I now that I'm listening to you, I'm thinking that was a value wound because I was so afraid that what if someone takes this course and decides, well, this wasn't worth my the money that I spent, or I invested because this one part of it was not pronounced correctly, or you know, what have you. So I wanted it to be so perfect. Is that a value wound?

SPEAKER_01 20:15

That is, that is, and and and um when you were talking, these were these are three words that came out to me overthinking. So, like you said, you go on and you post, let's say you you're you're impulsive and you go out, or even if you plan, let's say you plan for three weeks straight, and then you go on and you do this 40-minute live, and then you come back and you're picking it apart obsessively. Of course, we all debrief, right? Well, I I will go back and listen to my videos or my audios and say, hmm, I hope I, you know, I I captured everything, you know, because maybe I was it wasn't scripted. I was speaking from from my heart. I'm hoping that my that my audience got my message. It's very natural for somebody to do that, but to obsess over it, to spend, wake up at two o'clock in the morning wondering, hmm, that video that I did, I wonder if I should have said tomato or not pronounce it as tomato. You know, I was speaking to a different kind of audience. Maybe they won't understand. You know, that that that kind of thing, that's that. Then another, then the other two words, another word that came up is the over preparing. Again, those are the people I I'm not gonna lie, I've been guilty of doing that. Where I get ready to go on and let's say do a live and I have a book in front of me. I pull up an article, maybe that I created a little while back, some research that I've done. I have again 47 browsers open just to make sure I'm capturing everything for my audience. That's not over preparing. The other one is overgiving. Now, this is one that we haven't talked about. People who tend to give away all their expertise for free when they claim they're in business. Think about it, it's a value wound because they feel like if I don't give them the best of the best of the best, if I don't give them everything, then how are they going to know that I'm worth it?

unknown 21:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 22:00

Yeah, I see that one.

SPEAKER_00 22:03

This one I see a lot. And I always like, or I'm going to do, I don't know, a two-hour coaching call before I sell anything, or I'm going to give away this like massive thing. And every time I hear, I'm like, please don't do that. You could give away everything. And still have those people not move forward and take you up on your offer. It has nothing to do with how much you give. That's not what moves people. They move forward and they want to take you up when they know you're the right person and your solution is the right solution. So that is amazing.

SPEAKER_01 22:38

And yeah, and you know what, Ellie, real quick on that one, that particular one, the overgiving, when there's that desperation, believe it or not, people sense it. Yes. People sense the desperation in your voice when you're giving away everything just to try to sell them a $47 course. Yes. You know what I mean? Or you're trying to give them the pots, the pants, the kitchen sink, the everything. You want to go up into the bathroom and scrape everything out and bring it out and hand it to the person and say, take all of this just so that we believe it or not, our energy speaks and your audience is going to sense that you are desperate. And anybody who's desperate, let's be honest, who wants to be served by someone who's desperate? Exactly.

SPEAKER_00 23:18

No, I hear you. I hear you. And when you were going through the wounds, when you said the value and the safety one, when you got to the safety one, I thought, well, aren't they the same things in on some level, the way that you were speaking to it? But then as you got into the explanation, part of that I thought, oh my gosh, this is another area, especially um because a lot of the work that I do with um my clients, it goes um, you know, like the first layer is all about finding your voice. Like, what do you say that nobody else says in the market? What do you see that nobody else sees? Or even what do you see in your market, in your niche, or other people are saying that you disagree with? Those become your unique lens, your unique perspectives, your unique talking points. And one of the first objections that I hear from some people is like, but what if I get called out? What if somebody like shows up and disagrees with that? If like 100 people or everybody in my market is saying, you know, is giving this advice, and then here I am showing up, and I'm saying, you know, this is this advice is not gonna work, then they're gonna call me out and my reputation might get ruined. And I want it's like a huge, huge fear, which you know, it it doesn't mean that you have to go and call anybody out by name or talk bad about them, but it's about you showing up in your own truth. So let's go deep into the safety wound. Into that one.

SPEAKER_01 24:55

Um, so Ella, like you know that some of the work that I do, actually, you I'm sure you've heard me talk about emotional safety. That's actually the basis, is the foundation of you know, all the other pillars that I work with. Um, emotional safety. I think you've heard me say that so many times. My posts are riddled with the mention of emotional safety. And this is, you know, when you come back to that nervous system, I'm not gonna go into nervous system, but I'm just gonna throw out that word there because I'm sure people have heard about the whole nervous system regulation, right? Do I feel safe enough to step out and say and speak my truth? That's where that safety is coming from. So I'm gonna go back again because you know I like to talk about, you know, like the like the like the younger version, the inner child, you know, I always go back because this is where most of the wounds are coming from, Ellie. Really, a lot of her wounds are coming from childhood, all the way through, you know, adolescence and maybe you know adulthood. Um, and so when you hear me talk about a younger version of someone, it can even be a younger version of you two weeks ago. It's just a version of you that's you know not the you of today. And so when I talk about that, um, I I actually have archetypes for these and this particular um, this particular wound, the person who will carry this, I would say that they're the catalyst, they're the bold disruptor, but they're also the but that they can also show up as the filtered leader, so they're showing up in their space, right? They want to, they they desperately want to initiate some sort of kind of movement. I mean, clearly that's why they're in the coaching space, but then when it comes time for them to speak their truth, guess how it shows up? Polished, safe, vanilla content. I don't want to ruffle feathers. And when we go back to childhood, I want you know, your audience to stop and think. When I was growing up, was there a lot of punishment for speaking my truth? Whenever I spoke what was unfair, whenever I spoke my mind, whenever I spoke what I needed, was I punished? Was there a backlash? Was I rejected? Was I told to go stand in the corner because I dared to speak up and it was considered being disrespectful, right? When you think back to that, it's that memory sometimes. And also, too, actually, for me, I think I mentioned this to you one time that getting told that I talked too much, you know, so that also brings out that wound sometimes, that memory of being told that I was just too much. So, guess what we do? We learn to dim our light in order to feel safe. That's where that safety wound is coming from. I don't feel safe enough to speak in my boldness, to speak with the energy that I really want to speak. I know that this is this is so wrong in this industry, or I this is something that um leaders in my industry are not talking about because it's a taboo topic. But I know if I open my mouth and I talk, people are gonna throw rotten potatoes and apples and stuff at me. So let me just shut my mouth and just play it safe and go with the flow. What happens again? Um, I think for the entrepreneur who's listening who tends to feel that way, you go out there, you put the message out, but let's be very honest, you come back home and you're beating yourself up. Like, why didn't I say this? I know I could have said this, I had the opportunity to say this, but I didn't say this. Well, it was the fear. So be gentle with yourself, be kind to yourself. And now moving forward, when you go out there to post stuff like that, my thing is you want to ground yourself and just make sure that you feel safe enough so that when you're speaking, you're speaking from flow and you're not speaking from wound.

SPEAKER_00 28:39

Yeah, hopefully that's what it kind of answers. Yes, yes, yes, yes. And then you mentioned actually, as you were talking about this, you mentioned archaeotypes, and uh the way I understood it, the way that you mentioned it, um, is that every one of these, there is an opposite of that. That's where your superpower is. Is that correct?

SPEAKER_01 29:00

Yes, yes, yes, yes, it is. So, so for example, so going back for the first one that I gave, like the value wound, you could show up as the expert guide, or you can show up as the wounded version, which is the over-explainer. You want to explain everything. The over-explainer, the overthinker, the over-prepared, the overgiver. You know what I mean? So the empowering, the superpower archetype is the guide. I'm the expert here in the room. I'm not bothered about what other people. I don't need to overexplain myself. That's for the value wound. If it's for the for the for the for the for the safety wound, the architect, like the the the unempowered archetype, I'll call it, will be the filtered leader. Again, vanilla, punish, polished content, because you don't want to ruffle feathers. And the opposite will be I am a catalyst, I am a disruptor. I am here to speak my truth. And not everybody needs to agree with me, but I feel safe enough in my space to say, this is what I believe in, this is my message, and I'm speaking it from lived experience. Or I'm speaking, I'm I'm speaking from a space of I've worked with X amount of people, and this is what I've seen, and nobody can take that away from me. So ultimately, it's just feeling safe enough to say, am I gonna show up today as the bold disruptor who is confident in my space and my energy is gonna speak speak through, or am I gonna show up as the filtered leader? Let me not say this just about now because then people are going to be mad at me.

SPEAKER_00 30:30

So the distance between am I going to show up as this version of me or that version of me, it's I'm assuming it's more than just I'm gonna make a decision of how I show up correctly.

SPEAKER_01 30:42

Oh yeah, oh yeah, oh yeah, it's it's a lot more. Ellie, I can't tell you how many times I've said I'm gonna go live, I'm gonna do live, I'm gonna do this, and then when the time comes, you know, I put on all my pretty makeup and I'm looking all good. You know, even I'm admiring myself in the mirror, and then I get to turn on the camera, I'm like, no, not today, another day. You know, so it's way more than saying, oh, today I'm gonna be the bold disruptor. It's feeling safe in my space to say the message I'm about to give is a message that somebody out there needs to hear this today at this time. Because one, either it might be life-saving or it might make a huge difference in their lives, and just being safe to say it doesn't matter whether people agree with me or not. What matters is that I've put my message out there.

SPEAKER_00 31:30

Absolutely. I mean, what you just touched on, this is one of the conclusions that I reached when I was over-preparing, over-complicating things, or overthinking things. Um, like the example I gave you with recording my online course, like so many times and everything. I obsessed over every single thing. Even if I wanted to put out a, you know, just one small post, I had to like think it and rethink it and rethink it and rethink it. And sometimes just like the example you gave with recording your video, I would like, eh, maybe not today, and then just trash it. And that never saw the light of day. And for me, um, and I I right now, when I look back to the version of me from 15 years ago, I wouldn't say it was as simple as what I'm going to say. I'm sure there were many, many, many moments that led me to the moment when I said to myself, it is my obligation. Like you said just now, I have something that I know my audience needs to hear. Nobody else is talking about it. Nobody else is solving it the way that I'm solving it. And if I don't show up, if I delete this post, if I don't record that video, then the people whom I would only be able to help, right? Those people will never get the help that they need, you know? So again, I don't think it was like one day I woke up and I had that thought. I don't think that that's what it was. I think there were like many, many moments that led to that. And I wouldn't also say that since then that I had this, you know, this spark or this idea that it vanished. And from that day, all of a sudden it's like I'm cured now. Like I've had many, many moments of doubting or overthinking or over preparing as well. So, but I love that I wanted to highlight that because every just like you were talking about the archaeotypes, I also think that um, and I would love for you to speak to that as well. If each of these can be tied into the purpose or the mission behind why we step into entrepreneurship or taking that solution to the market, whether or not by having that aspect in there, somehow we can overcome some of these wounds by respinning it. So, could you talk a little bit about that?

SPEAKER_01 34:03

Uh okay. So, so here's the thing, Ellie. When it comes to healing, there is no, I'm just gonna wake up and just, you know, I'm just gonna do it. Because, like I like I mentioned, us human beings, our experiences are so complex. Sometimes they're layers upon layers upon layers. So the other day I was doing my own personal work. Believe it or not, I'm sitting here talking about visibility, but I have done, I would say almost three months of work in the past few months on my visibility wounds. And believe it or not, every layer that I thought I had healed revealed another layer. So my first one was fear of being seen, right? And then right when I worked on it, you know, I did my journaling, I did my EFT tapping, you know, I went back to my cosmic design and I looked at it and said, okay, where, you know, where might I have brought these wounds from, or how can I heal them, or what are they, how are they meant to play a bigger um role, right, in the work that I do. When I had done all that work, it revealed, oh, fear of success. So you will think that after doing work on uh maybe a whole month's work on fear of being seen, you know, you will think I'm ready to go out there and stand on stage and talk to a you know, a 10,000, you know, person room crowd. No, then fear of success showed up, and that fear of success brought its own things that it, you know, that it had with it. Well, well, well, what happens then? You know, some somewhere subconsciously I had carried this fear, and this is me being very, very vulnerable right now. Growing up, my dad was well to do. I was born and raised in Africa, and there were um, I guess it's very similar maybe to the US, where you would say the haves and the have nots, you know, people are well-to-do, the middle class, that kind of a concept. And so um a lot of people who didn't have, who couldn't afford it, came to my dad for help. And so growing up, I saw my dad in more ways than one burden with the responsibility of other people. And so there was a part of me, this is what I found out when I was doing the healing work, there has there's a part of me, there's a younger version of me that feared responsibility, it feared being successful, it feared that, oh, if I become successful, then people are gonna expect this from me. Because growing up, also too, I saw that yes, while my dad, very loving, very caring, but deep down, he wasn't always happy. And there's a part of me, I guess, that came up with that conclusion, not that he said it, that oh, he must have so much money, but he is so unhappy. So, do you see how that younger version of me held on to that? I can, you know, call that that belief into saying, well, if you're successful, the whole world is going to expect so much from you. So guess what? Play small, and nobody comes to ask you for a dime. It's weird, Ellie. You nobody would have thought, I wouldn't have thought about that. But as I did the work, that is what it uncovered. So it's like you said, it's not as easy, you know. And I want to stress this out to anybody who's feeling like I've experienced visibility block, so you know, it's not a character flaw, it's a protection mechanism. And the thing that it's trying to do is to call your attention to say there's something here that needs taken taken care of. So it's not as easy as saying, oh, I'm gonna wake up today and just be the bold disruptor. Well, like, for example, in my case, I want to go out there and be that, but there's a part of me maybe that fears the fear of feeling seen. Or, well, guess what? What if you go out there and you disrupt, and then you get a million followers, and now everybody's calling and they want you to do this and that. Can you manage the responsibility of that? Because remember, when you were growing up, you somehow, your young, you know, like your younger version of you, the uninformed version of you, somehow associated success with responsibility and misery.

unknown 38:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 38:13

Yeah. This is, you know, to be human and to walk on this earth, I don't think there's any of us, any one person immune from um one way or the other getting damaged. If it's not by your parents or your family, it's by school, by society, by it. It's just impossible to walk on this earth and to have this human experience and not one way or the other get damaged, right? Or carry um baggage from whatever experiences that you've been carrying all your life. And I love the fact that you talked about that because I call this like toxic advice where, you know, people um tell you, like, oh, you know, if you're like imposter syndrome, just push through and pretend, you know, pretend, or um, you know, if you're dealing with this other, like you don't you you don't feel safe to show up online. Oh no, just push through, just get consistent. Um, I remember this was about uh 10 years ago, there was this one um coach that was advising and very well known was was was advising people like if you have the fear of showing up online and do live streaming because Facebook live streaming was such a big deal back then, then she was like running this 30-day challenge. You show up, you push through this, you push yourself to even doesn't matter how much fear you have, you're gonna show up every single day, you have to record, you gotta go live inside this Facebook group. And then by the end of 30 days, you're gonna be cured. Now, for some people, that might work, you know, if they're like you're saying, maybe there are not those layers there or somehow they work through it. But for majority of people, it doesn't work it because they haven't dealt with what is what is behind all of that, what caused them? Like the example you gave a second ago, if you hadn't sat down and thought through, okay, what what am I afraid of? What what am I, you know, what's what's causing this fear? And then eventually, and the answer is that there. I think we all, if we give it space and time, we get there. We all have the answers. Like eventually you landed to to a place where it became obvious that, oh my gosh, like when I was growing up, I saw that. And so, and and so that's very important to do that deep level work. So I'm assuming that's what you do when clients come to you.

SPEAKER_01 40:46

That is what I do. And before I say that, it's it's so funny because I was sitting down thinking about this concept of the push-through for entrepreneurs, like you said, we're being told, just take the leap, take the cold plunge, you know, wake up and just do it, just get out of your head. And Ellie, I honestly do because I so I'll tell you, I get it. Let me start by saying I get it. I genuinely do, and this I'm not just paying lip service to you or to your audience, right? Um, I get it because uh sitting with these wounds can be very uncomfortable. I'm telling you, it took me three months to finally get to the bottom, which I'm pretty sure if I keep digging, I'm pretty sure I'll find some more stuff. But to actually get to the fact that all of this imposter syndrome that was showing up from me, pushing through wasn't gonna work because they were hitting fears, fear of being seen, right? Because I was told I was too much growing up, getting punished for, you know, being the comedian in the family and wanting to, you know, always um, you know, like um to be the one talking and stuff like that. Uh, so I get why um coaches tell the people that they work with, just push through. I get that. Because again, sitting with that moon is very uncomfortable. And sometimes if a person is not in a good space, sometimes it can create, it can open up more wounds, you know. But pushing through a symptom, here's what I want to say before I move on to um to the real question they asked me uh pushing through a symptom while ignoring the route, it just means that the moon shows up somewhere else in your business. Like I said, you can decide to say, I'm gonna push through and just be and just go on and speak all day long and you know be visible. Because when we talk about visibility, we think visibility is just limited to me just going on and speaking. But what about you showing up for your clients, right? One-on-one, when it's just you and the client, are you showing up in the fullest version of yourself? Um, so it shows up, it shows up in different areas of our business. What it does is these wounds, when we don't take when we don't pay attention to them, when we push through, what happens is you could push through, but what it's going to do because the wound is still sitting at the core, it's going to recycle itself into a new pattern. It becomes something else. So today, if it's not um imposter syndrome, tomorrow is something else. Okay. And what I want to say is this is this has been my own understanding of a sustainable business. It cannot be built on a suppressed wound. Pushing through does not have to be a strategy, it's not one more strategy that coaches can teach. Because what happens is when it becomes a strategy or just push through, it's a temporary bypass. The wound is still sitting there, it is not going anywhere, and it's again, it's going to recycle itself. Don't be surprised if a few months later it shows up. Or let's say, like they say, I'm sure you've heard the word higher levels, higher devils, right?

unknown 43:51

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 43:53

Yes. You overcame, you push through the speaking on social media, and yes, now you can sit back. Behind your keyboard and talk. Guess what? That wound is still there. When somebody discovers you and says, Oh my God, Nena is such an amazing speaker. I would want her to come and speak in front of a room full of 50 people. Now that's a very different kind of space, right? It's a different kind of energy that I'm bringing. Will I also feel safe enough to push through?

unknown 44:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 44:20

Yeah. 100%. 100%. I have seen, like in my own experience, like when you're speaking to the fact that if when you don't deal with it, it is just it manifests itself in other places, or you may end up misdiagnosing it. Yeah. You know, one of the examples that I've talked a lot about, you know, to my clients and on social media, is that for the longest time, I always believe that I'm the type of person who my energy can only be sustained for so long. So let's just say that I have a podcast interview at 1 p.m. I had to really conserve my energy because I believe that for me to show up on that interview at 1 p.m., I needed to make sure that I'm not, you know, my energy is like saved for that event. And when that interview was over, I would be done for the day. So my entire day would be dedicated to that one podcast interview. Or if I was doing a live event, it would just be all around that. And like if I told you, like last week, I had in the morning, I had a coaching session, then I had a two-hour live um surve event, live event. Then I had a workshop that I ran for two hours, which ran a little bit over. And then when that was over, I sat down and I did some more work towards the stuff like client work for the following day. So it wasn't energy. My energy hasn't changed. I'm the same person, if anything, I'm 10 years older. So my energy, by all accounts, should be less now. But really, what was happening for me is I was so terrified at being seen. And I was so terrified of God knows how many of other these wounds, the value or safety, or effort or identity or belonging, God knows, that I was dealing with that I just had to, and I hadn't dealt with it properly. So then I that's how it showed up as lack of energy. And I see this show up when I work with clients in different ways. You know, it shows up as, again, as I I have clients who are who they are terrified of technology, but yet they're using technology, or they just overthink every aspect of, let's say, if they want to do an event because they're not ready. They just need one more thing and they've been getting ready for the last year. Like, when are you gonna get ready? And on and on. I've had even extreme cases where I had a client, we worked all the way through her launch. It was ready for her to launch her offer. She ended up in a hospital for six weeks. And then when she came out of the hospital, she reached out. We worked again to get it ready, and then she ended up having that same problem right before her launch. And then she's like, I can't do this. It had nothing to do, and it was very um puzzling to her because she's like, I've never this particular illness, I've never had it in my life. And then it went away, and there was a year period between the first time and when she reached out to me the second time, healthy, no problem. All of a sudden, I'm back in a hospital with that same mysterious illness, and I've seen all kinds of things. So um, going back to the question that I asked, so um, as we talked about, it's not like to, you know, I become aware and magically that's it. Tomorrow um I'm done, I am cured, and I can go on and do, you know, whatever was in my way and was blocking me. So I am assuming there's a method to your madness, and this is what you help clients with to identify the wounds and to be able to work through the wounds or at least help them see how it's manifesting and how to deal with that. Is that correct? And if it is, can you speak to us a little bit about that?

SPEAKER_01 48:29

It is, it is, it is, um, Ellie. And the first point, like we said, it's like she starts by understanding that this wound isn't just limited to visibility alone, it's also looking at this wound and seeing in other places where else it's shown up because we're looking for patterns there, right? Has this, let's say, has this value wound shown up in your personal relationships, or has this safety wound shown up in your friendships? Where has this wound shown up? Okay, besides you just showing up on social media. I know that we're in this space right now speaking to entrepreneurs, but there's one thing that I that we can both agree on, if nothing else, is that at the end of the day, underneath the entrepreneur, the boss babe, boss lady, however people choose to refer to themselves these days, is a human being. A human being with flesh and blood, who cries, who hurts, right? Who's gone through an enormous life experience to get to where she is today, to stand on the stage and speak to a crowd of 10, 20, 50, a million, right? She's human underneath it. So um, I want us to, you know, to always remember, I want your audience hearing if they take nothing else away from this, is it's not just about understanding, oh, that this wound has limited my visibility, but it's understanding that I'm human, and so it might have impacted so many other areas of my life. Where has it done whatever damage it's done up to this day, or where has it shown up where it needs my attention? Okay. Um, so she starts with understanding again. Like I said, this wound isn't limited to visibility alone. Um, what happens is because it's limiting her ability to do things, like to charge, to receive. I'm pretty sure you have an audience who are on there or saying it's not just about visibility, it's impacting. I I feel like again, like when we're talking about the value, the safety wound and stuff, and mention all of these wounds. It's well, I can't really charge my worth. I feel like if I tell someone that my coaching program is $5,000, then they're going to think, Am I crazy? Like, who am I to charge that? So she also recognizes that it's impacting her bill, her ability to do other things, not just visibility to charge, to receive according to the value that she provides. It's also impacting her ability to create optimal containers for her client. So she needs to recognize how each of these wounds is showing up and what fear we get down to the fear. Which fear or limiting belief is this wound attached to? Okay. And how can we turn around, look at this fear, look at this belief, understand where it's coming from, acknowledge it for what it is, right? And then reframe it. So that's why I said it's not as easy as waking up and saying, Oh, today I'm just gonna be the bold disruptor and I'm gonna go out there and speak. Because if you don't know where that fear is coming from, and you say I'm gonna push through, it might manifest in another way that throws you completely off guard. Like I said, it might show up in a way where okay, now you went on and you spoke and you did what you had to do. Now you have a client, and the client is asking you, Well, how much do you charge? And then you can't even say you can't even speak your worth. Right? That's that wound appearing, showing up again, saying, Well, we don't value ourselves. We've been told earlier on that we're worthless, we are useless, we are not of any value. So now I finally pushed through and I got the client. Well, I don't even know what to tell the client. So it's again, it goes a lot deeper, but I always bring clients to the space of what fears and limiting beliefs continue to nurture this wound because once you get to the root of that, that's that's the root actually, the fear, the limiting belief, the experience. What's your story behind that wound? Once we get to the core of it, then we start to unpack and then we get to reframing it. So, like I mentioned earlier, you can't, it's hard to build an expansive business from unhealed wounds. You know, it's because these wounds, no matter what we do, Ellie, like I said, they pop up, they get recycled, they are the energy. Yeah, we show up, and if your wound is the loudest energy in the room, it's gonna be louder than your voice because you're gonna be speaking, but your energy is not going to match the words that are coming out of your mouth, actually.

SPEAKER_00 53:03

100%, 100%. And no matter what stage of your business you're in, I can't think of a single person who wouldn't benefit from um getting that clarity, who wouldn't benefit from understanding because, like I said, I I from colleagues to clients to my own experiences, uh this the these show up in various ways. And a lot of us have just learned to push through instead of really identifying it, becoming aware of it, seeing like how it's showing up in our life and our business and how to properly deal with that. So, for our audience, if they want to reach out to you or find you or work with you, um, where can they go?

SPEAKER_01 53:52

Well, Ellie, um, your audience can come find me on Substack. That's where all the fun girls hang out. Uh, I have a publication on there. Um, I also do post um actively. So there's a whole bunch of resources on there. I talk about different things. I'm not just limited to wounds. I also talk, um, I um some of my tools also include um cosmic design. So it's uh astrology, human design. You will, if they pop onto my page, don't be surprised. Um, their audience, if you see stuff like that, hang in there with me. Um, reach out to me on Substack, message me, and we can get a conversation going. But yes, they can come hang out where the fun girls hang out, Substack.

SPEAKER_00 54:36

So you hear that if you're not a fun girl, shame on you. But if you are, go to Nene Substack and we're going to link it, link the um your Substack publication in the show notes as well. Well, Nene, thank you so much for your time. I know that that we didn't get to all the wounds today, but I can imagine, you know, there's just so many layers and layers and layers into that. And so um for those of you who are interested to get to know yourself better and bring the the strongest, but best version of yourself into your life, into your business, highly encourage you go check out Nene's publication, revive her. And again, I'll link it to the show notes. Thank you again for being here on the show.

SPEAKER_01 55:22

But Ellie, thank you. Thank you. I know you know we've had fun on here, and it's always a pleasure talking to you. Um, it's definitely been an honor and a pleasure um speaking to you and sharing with you some of these visibility wounds, you know, that entrepreneurs carry, which, you know, our humanity brings it into the workspace. And so we can't ignore that part of it. We can bring up all the containers, all the lead magnets, or all the funnels. And that, but at the end, at the core of it, when we show up, we're not showing up as lead magnets and emails, we're showing up as human. And unless we take care of that human side, it's going to show up. It's going to be the loudest voice in the room. It's going to overtake the message that we have. So I definitely um encourage every single one of your audience to just pay attention to the wounds that you carry, to the patterns that show up for you, because they just may be what might get you onto the next level. Again, Ellie, it's a pleasure. It's all it's been awesome uh being on here. Thank you so much.

SPEAKER_00 56:25

Beautifully said, and I appreciate your time as well.